Seymour Hersh Says Bush Intent On Nuking Iran
A new piece by Seymour Hersh in the New Yorker says that President Bush is so adamant about denying Iran the ability to develop nuclear weapons that serious plans are being made to pre-emptively nuke that Persian Gulf nation.
A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was "absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb" if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do "what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do," and "that saving Iran is going to be his legacy."...
In recent weeks, the President has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans for Iran with a few key senators and members of Congress, including at least one Democrat. A senior member of the House Appropriations Committee, who did not take part in the meetings but has discussed their content with his colleagues, told me that there had been "no formal briefings," because "they're reluctant to brief the minority. They're doing the Senate, somewhat selectively."
The House member said that no one in the meetings "is really objecting" to the talk of war. "The people they're briefing are the same ones who led the charge on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites at once? How are you going to get deep enough?" (Iran is building facilities underground.) "There's no pressure from Congress" not to take military action, the House member added. "The only political pressure is from the guys who want to do it." Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, "The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision." ...
One of the military's initial option plans, as presented to the White House by the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear sites...
According to a former senior intelligence official:
"These politicians don't have a clue, and whenever anybody tries to get it out"--remove the nuclear option--"they're shouted down."
The attention given to the nuclear option has created serious misgivings inside the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he added, and some officers have talked about resigning. Late this winter, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought to remove the nuclear option from the evolving war plans for Iran--without success, the former intelligence official said. "The White House said, 'Why are you challenging this? The option came from you.'" ...
(A Pentagon advisor) also confirmed that some senior officers and officials were considering resigning over the issue. "There are very strong sentiments within the military against brandishing nuclear weapons against other countries," the adviser told me. "This goes to high levels."
On this blog we have been reporting heavily on the information operation against Iran for months now. Someone may be feeding Hersh material along these lines.
If not, things are gonna get hairy real soon.
A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was "absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb" if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do "what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do," and "that saving Iran is going to be his legacy."...
In recent weeks, the President has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans for Iran with a few key senators and members of Congress, including at least one Democrat. A senior member of the House Appropriations Committee, who did not take part in the meetings but has discussed their content with his colleagues, told me that there had been "no formal briefings," because "they're reluctant to brief the minority. They're doing the Senate, somewhat selectively."
The House member said that no one in the meetings "is really objecting" to the talk of war. "The people they're briefing are the same ones who led the charge on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites at once? How are you going to get deep enough?" (Iran is building facilities underground.) "There's no pressure from Congress" not to take military action, the House member added. "The only political pressure is from the guys who want to do it." Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, "The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision." ...
One of the military's initial option plans, as presented to the White House by the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear sites...
According to a former senior intelligence official:
"These politicians don't have a clue, and whenever anybody tries to get it out"--remove the nuclear option--"they're shouted down."
The attention given to the nuclear option has created serious misgivings inside the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he added, and some officers have talked about resigning. Late this winter, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought to remove the nuclear option from the evolving war plans for Iran--without success, the former intelligence official said. "The White House said, 'Why are you challenging this? The option came from you.'" ...
(A Pentagon advisor) also confirmed that some senior officers and officials were considering resigning over the issue. "There are very strong sentiments within the military against brandishing nuclear weapons against other countries," the adviser told me. "This goes to high levels."
On this blog we have been reporting heavily on the information operation against Iran for months now. Someone may be feeding Hersh material along these lines.
If not, things are gonna get hairy real soon.
posted by Effwit at 12:39 PM
21 Comments:
Just finished reading the Hersh article. Amazing. Just amazing.
And I'm left trying to figure out who the REAL terrorists are. Seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me. We don't want Iran to have nukes, so we're contemplating using nukes to keep them from having nukes. Brilliant!
How do we get off this effing merry-go-round?!
I found the discussion of the Iranian laptop interesting. Much as I expected, too. Bogus.
Sounds like it's just a matter of time.
And on a related note, it seems like there's some Venezuelan activity now taking place. Are we intent on invading there, as well?
DrewL:
The best we can hope for is that Hersh's article is part of the info-op to intimidate Iran into negotiating away their nuclear program.
If not, or if Iran remains defiant, we can expect a U.S. attack.
You and I and the others here had the laptop bullshittery pegged. Joseph Cannon recognized as much back in Febuary, and gave us props on Cannonfire.
On Venezuela. Do they have oil? ;-)
VZ has oil AND an ornery leader. That seems to be the one-two punch required for U.S. intervention.
DrewL:
VZ has oil AND an ornery leader. That seems to be the one-two punch required for U.S. intervention.
In that case, it can't be looking too good for Hugo et al.
... Completely agree with drewl's comment...
We don't want Iran to have nukes, so we're contemplating using nukes to keep them from having nukes. Brilliant!
I can't see why Iran would defer to America's wishes and negotiate away their nuclear program...
How do you persuade someone to drop their gun when they see you've got five or six guns aimed at them; are contiuing to arm yourself to the teeth and threatening them at the same time? With all the brilliant psychologists living in the U.S. why doesn't someone talk to Bush before he trashes the planet?
Dena
Dena:
With all the brilliant psychologists living in the U.S. why doesn't someone talk to Bush before he trashes the planet?
Bush doesn't trust mental health professionals any more than he trusts "freedom-hatin' Muslims."
And neither group trusts Bush.
With any luck, soon the "critical mass" of administration crimes will start a political meltdown for Bush and his cronies. Then the nightmare scenario that Hersh is describing--a nuclear attack upon Iran--will be abandoned by the more level-headed successors to our lunatic leader.
Of course, when all we have to go on is hope and luck against a well-organized criminal regime, peace-loving people are not exactly operating from a position of strength.
Effwit, I think you know that's not quite true... Peace-loving people are *always* operating from a position of strength.
I'm waiting patiently for that political meltdown. And the longer it takes the more satisfied I'll be when it finally arrives.
Dena
Dena:
You are right.
Moral strength is an indispensible asset in a battle against evil. And the vile goopers in power certainly are lacking in that quality.
Reminds me of the episode on Easter eve during WWII when Stalin got it into his vodka-besotted head to round up all the Catholics in Moscow and crucify them on telegraph poles. When Molotov, Malenkov, Gromyko or one of the others warned the dictator that the Pope would be irritated at such a move, Stalin asked "How many divisions does the Pope have?"
We all know which outfit is still in existance.
Effwit said The best we can hope for is that Hersh's article is part of the info-op
I think that would be wishful thinking at best. Of course Hersh's stuff could be exploited per convenience but I doubt he is passing along any disinfo per se or pandering to any ongoing info-op. I've always found the guy to be a straight and courageous shooter....often years ahead of what ends up breaking into mainstream conciousness.
And the guy has an honest aura...or so says my female-ish sensibilities.
You know, I think there is a strong yearning in the collective American subconcious to use nukes and to use them against Iran. Genocide George is deeply tapped in to that vein of trailer trash sentiment and for that one has to hand it to him.
I truly believe that nuking Iran is completely feasible in terms of cognitive readiness on both GG's and middle-america's part. In fact, there is a pressing curiosity that wants to see such events unfold. A Xmas eve-ish state of mind.
Heck, I've already got my potassium iodide stores built up in my newly acquired Decamerone shack. I knew it was a wise move to go to med school back in da day. A dug-out needs a doc more than a Java script programmer when push comes to shove. We've all got a bit of that coldwar fatalism in us and that ironically paves the way for the deployment of nuclear options per our deterministic readiness. Fuck, it seems like lots of bad vectors are converging. George is just making good on our dreams.
If he hits Iran then we will all have hit Iran. And he will.
M1:
For the record, I could have used better wording in my response to DrewL that you quote. A less ambiguous version is in the body of my post where I said:
On this blog we have been reporting heavily on the information operation against Iran for months now. Someone may be feeding Hersh material along these lines.
I do not think Sy a part of the plot, but one can rarely know the whole motivation of any source of information. Sy cannot be sure that he is not being led by others.
I'm gravitating toward your SITREP.
Unless we have a Seven Days in May scenario (however, from the "doves" in the Pentagon and CIA). Not bloody likely.
Tis I who was ambiguous when responding to your post. My agreement with your missive reads instead like a snide-azzed correction. Pas d'intention.
M1:
On a re-reading of your comment I find it is I who erred in interpretation. You expressly stated Of course Hersh's stuff could be exploited per convenience...
By the time I had finished your entire comment the first time I was so preoccupied with scoring potassium iodine, etc., that I wasn't keeping the whole picture in mind.
And to think, I still haven't gotten my plastic sheeting and duct tape per Tom Ridge yet. I am really behind the power curve in preparedness.
I remember that we are not supposed to eat the yellow snow following a nuclear exchange, but I always thought that it was a generic warning against eating reindeer piss.
I threw out my CD manuals years ago. Shit.
Hey...I had to look up how to spell Potassium iodide before I posted here..that's hw much credibility there is to my stockpiling efforts.
Im diving back in here cuz up until 5 minutes ago Ive missed out on all the reaction-hoopla around Sy's article. Just read how it's been branded by the Iranians.
It's possible that Sy could be fed info-op B.S. by his sources, but I suspect he's more than savvy enough to detect what is real and what is B.S. If it were an effective info-op, I don't think the nuke option would be accompanied by the caveat that the JCOS would re-sign. That seems to be counterproductive to admit that your top military leaders will fly the coop if nukes are used. In fact, that makes it seem less like an idle threat and more like a legitimate option...which is really quite amazing.
I bought 2 clicks worth of duct tape but discovered I can't use the shit - I have no goddamn finger nails!!! Imagine that!
M1:
I shall check IRNA to see what are the freedom haters are saying.
Re the duct tape: I'm sure you can find some use for it.
;-)
DrewL:
The rule of thumb in info-ops is that 90% of the stuff should be true. It makes the story sell itself.
That said, you are right about Hersh not being easily spinnable. A crucial thing Hersh would have been on alert for is how many officials are spewing the same tale.
Too many or too few can mean trouble for a muckraker.
In this case, I tend to agree with you that something serious is afoot.
Effwit -
Thanks for that little piece of history - re Stalin... I don't know much history - I work in graphic design -- but with the world going to hell in a handbasket, as it seems to be doing these days -- I'm trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can... that includes, I guess, knowing that I have to stock up on duct tape? But seriously, rather than keeping a supply of Potassium Iodide handy - I hope I get incinerated immediately since I don't want to live in a Mad Max world...
and Sy Hersh is my hero -- in a decent world his face would have been on the cover of Time as man of the year instead of Bush or Bill Gates or whomever they put on the cover...
Dena
Dena:
I very much enjoy getting your outlook on issues. You always exhibit more diamond sharp wisdom than 99% of the people who do this kind of a thing for a living.
Stocking up on duct tape (and other items) was one essential life-preserving measure that former Homeland Czar Tom Ridge told people to do in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks and the anthrax incident. The frightened Americans were shown on TV lining up at the hardware store to buy these worthless items. It was a political scare tactic to get people to believe that their government was trying to protect them with timely warnings. While at the same time angering the rest of the world (probably including some people who could be easily provoked into violence) by attacking Iraq, ignoring the Palestinian issue, etc.
In other words, don't worry about getting duct tape. I was joking about the warning with M1.
I agree that whistleblowers and muckrakers are much more heroic than those who are usually portrayed as such.
Take care.
Wow, effwit you're far too kind!
- Was thinking about your chilling example of Stalin's monstrous behaviour and wanted to tell you about a fascinating lecture I saw on TV a couple of months ago -- It was a lecture about the Soviet Experience in World War II given by Arne Kislenko... TVO had a kind of spoof of American Idol with a best lecturer series -- and a lot of the talks were good -- but this guy was excellent -- I had no idea that 30 million Russians died in WW11
If you want to look at the podcast of the lecture it is at the TVO website, and this link might work:
http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa/wo/ClaSUeBfI8iTbPyOJ9F0Sw/18.0.0.77.45.26.25.13.3.1
-- lastly, thinking about the ghastly cruxifiction you mentioned... I was wondering about the courage those people must have shown in such terrible circumstances... and something I heard on the radio yesterday made me think -- that after every crucifixtion is a resurrection (and I'm not catholic ) -- but that idea gives me hope...
Take care.
Dena
Dena:
Yeah, the Soviets bore the brunt of defeating Nazi Germany. That fact is conveniently overlooked by the jingoistic Americans with their glorification of "The Greatest Generation."
The sacrifices made by the Soviet Union was a big reason they occupied Eastern Europe for the next 40-plus years.
Many thanks for the link. I will take a look at it if I get the time.
I do not know whether the USSR actually carried out the crucifixions, but they were discussed at a high level leading to Stalin's famous quote about the military capability of the Pope.
Completely agree with your point about courage...and hope.
Smile,
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